Resource Library - Building the Version of Yourself Your Business Needs

Summary

Amy Lenius of Next Level University shares her journey from registered massage therapist to coach, speaker, and personal development mentor. Drawing from her experience overcoming chronic illness and building a career centred on growth and service, Amy explores the difference between self-belief and self-worth, the role of consistency in achieving goals, and how small, intentional actions can create meaningful change in both business and life.

Takeaways

• Self-belief is built through action, not through thinking alone.
• Self-worth often determines whether you can sustain the success you achieve.
• Motivation comes and goes, but consistency creates lasting results.
• Success should be defined by your own values, not by society's expectations.
• Small, sustainable habits outperform dramatic short-term changes.
• Identity plays a major role in the goals we set and the actions we take.
• Great coaches help uncover blind spots and accelerate personal growth.
• Comparing yourself to others is only useful when it inspires action.
• Intentionality can transform ordinary daily routines into meaningful self-care.
• Business success becomes more fulfilling when it aligns with health, relationships, and personal values.

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Transcript

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Koyoti Small Business Podcast
Segment: Resource Library
Host: Thomas Wu
Guest: Amy Lenius

Cleaned Transcript

Thomas Wu:
Hello, hello, and welcome back to another episode of the Koyoti Small Business Podcast, a resource library for your small business. A few episodes ago, we had the very great pleasure of speaking with Alan Lazarus, who is with Next Level University. Today we get to speak with another member of Next Level University, Amy Lenius. Welcome, Amy.

Amy Lenius:
Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited that you've had Alan on. He's our CEO, business genius, and computer engineer. I think it's always awesome when we get to go on the same shows because people get to see how different Kevin, Alan, and I are. I don't know if you've ever met Kevin yet, but the three of us are so different, and yet we have the same vision, similar core values, similar beliefs, and we all make it work by adding value together in the world. I think it's something really special.

Thomas Wu:
Very cool. Quite honestly, this is the first time we've had two people from the same organization on the show in different episodes. It really intrigues me because when I was speaking with Alan, and also in my pre-interview conversations with you, it was clear that you two are very different people. I'm very curious, and we're going to dive into that in a little bit. Amy, welcome, thank you, and I appreciate you doing this. I'd like to start where things start. Where were you born? Where were you raised?

Amy Lenius:
I was born and raised in British Columbia, Canada. Out west.

Thomas Wu:
All right. You went to school for RMT, registered massage therapy. Did you finish? Did you get into the industry? What was that part of your journey like?

Amy Lenius:
Absolutely. I know it seems like a jump from then to now, but my original post-secondary college was in anatomy and physiology for registered massage therapy. I went to school in Victoria on Vancouver Island, again out west. I say that because I'm east now. We moved to Ontario a few years ago.

I graduated. It was an incredibly intensive programme. They condensed four-something years down into two and a half. You don't take a big summer break or any kind of long winter break. You get a week here and a week there, and that's kind of it for the year.

It was actually really great. I enjoyed it a lot. It was a very intimate programme. You stay in a small group throughout your entire time, so you get to know a really good group of people, which is great because you are working on their bodies constantly. You get really close, really fast.

I loved the intensity of the schooling and how much I learned about mental, physical, and emotional health through that. After two and a half years of that, I had a practice for a few years. I really fell in love with pre- and postnatal care for women, and a lot of pelvic balancing. People would come see me for low back issues and things like that.

I fell in love with the amount of support I could give someone while they were on the table. I didn't necessarily realise throughout my schooling how much I would enjoy that. But when you have the privilege of working on someone physically, they open up to you mentally and emotionally as well.

I've talked to a lot of people who have been in the same field, or even other fields where you're working intimately with people. Even in hair and nails, people tell you all sorts of beautiful things. It was a different time than what I get to do now, but I can always look back and see the correlation. I still have a huge gratitude in my heart for all the anatomy and physiology training that I received.

Thomas Wu:
Amazing. You went from hands-on physical therapy to coaching about identity, self-worth, and those kinds of things. What triggered this shift? Was there a point where you realised, this isn't just about the body anymore? Or was there something else that triggered it for you?

Amy Lenius:
You learn very quickly that it's not just about the body, and how intensely mental, emotional, and physical health are tied together.

I myself was on a journey of healing from chronic illness, and I also had a back injury that almost physically forced me to stop practising. Before my back injury, I had started to become familiar with and fall in love with the natural wellness community. I had stepped away from Western medicine myself to start healing my chronic illness.

I was learning so much about holistic practices. Holistic meaning everything affects everything else. I had gone from a system of, this is just about this one piece of you, to going on this journey of, it's about everything about you. Your body is this internal, intense community that works together. If one piece is out, or if one part isn't functioning properly, it affects everything else.

If you can support everything, it will support the thing that's bothering you as well. It became more about my gut health, my liver function, my stress, and how my external environment was playing a role in what I was trying so hard to heal internally.

I fell in love with that community. People who were dedicated to decreasing toxins from their life, using plants, essential oils, supplements, and things like that to support their bodies in a proactive way, not just a reactive way.

Because I was already so versed in anatomy and physiology, and I was learning a lot and doing a lot for my own health, that put me in rooms with women who were also doing the same thing. They were interested in learning about their hormones and their cyclical nature. My condition was called endometriosis, and it's very hormonally driven in women.

I started teaching people about natural wellness, cyclical nature, and all of these things in small rooms. Then those rooms got bigger. I was put onto stages and started public speaking in rooms dedicated to natural wellness.

I started to realise that I could have a much bigger impact in those settings than with one patient per hour on the table. Then my back injury forced me into doing more of that as well. That transition was challenging, but it led to more opportunities for sure.

Thomas Wu:
Growing up, were you always good at public speaking? What gave you the confidence to step into that?

Amy Lenius:
No, I hated the idea. I don't know if anyone is born loving public speaking. There's a very small, rare subset of humans who are like, no, I would love to public speak. In fact, I've learned that most people fear it more than death on average.

My first exposure to speaking publicly would have been in high school. In grade 12 English, we had to speak in front of the classroom for 15 minutes, but it could be about anything we wanted. I dreaded it. Everyone in my class was upset about it and dreading it. We should have found camaraderie in that, but we didn't. Everyone was just self-centred in, oh my gosh, this is going to suck for me.

I was able to find a topic that I could talk about no problem. It's funny how life circles around because I talked about my experiences travelling to where I live now. I talked about bass fishing and the lake. I brought different baits in to show the other kids in the class, saying, this is what we fish with, this one gets it all the time, this one you don't get as much with, but you get a bigger bass.

I could talk and talk about it, sharing my experiences and my love for something that my family and I did together when travelling back east to where I live now. That was a nice bit of exposure therapy. If you have something you love to talk about, it's a lot easier to do so.

Then I still hadn't fully learned my lesson because when I went into RMT school, they told us that at the end of the two and a half years, we had to do a full case study on a condition and present it to the class. I think the presentation was about an hour because you also had to do a physical assessment, show the treatment process, talk about your findings, and hand in a professionally written case study.

I remember thinking, maybe this schooling isn't for me. I almost didn't go because two and a half years in the future sounded like it was going to suck. But because it was such an intimate group, by the end of those two and a half years, it didn't seem like that big of a deal.

Moving forward from there, I saw how valuable those conversations were. I saw women's faces light up and feel connected to me. I had such a passion for it because I had gone from this chronic illness that had been so debilitating in my life to being pain-free from something I was told was impossible to be pain-free from. That felt so important to talk about. I think your message is what motivates you to do something really scary.

Thomas Wu:
It's amazing that you were able to do that. There are a lot of people who aren't able to, so congratulations to you for being able to overcome that. Was there something about being on stage that you felt was missing? What led you to the next part of the journey?

Amy Lenius:
Where I am now, or from rooms to stages?

Thomas Wu:
From stages to the next level. Did you find Next Level University while you were still doing the stages, or was there something in between?

Amy Lenius:
I discovered Next Level University while I was travelling way up to northern Alberta. They're a daily podcast now, but back then I think they were doing two episodes a week. I had been asked to speak at a women's event, and someone in the vehicle said, "There are these two guys who interviewed Samantha Skelly, and she is a very famous breathwork facilitator. You have to listen to this episode."

The person in the vehicle was really into breathwork, so we listened. I fell in love with the interviewers. Sam is amazing, but I loved what the guys were doing and what they had to say.

Their whole intro was about holistic self-improvement. I loved the idea of holistic aspects being brought into growth and success. I had never heard it framed that way. I had fallen in love with the word holistic on my physical healing journey, embracing that everything affects everything else, and that we need to assess everything to be mentally, physically, and emotionally well.

Here were these two guys, who looked like a couple of bodybuilder bros, talking about holistic self-improvement and how we can do well and be successful in health, wealth, quality of life, and love with intention. That creates a fulfilling level of success. I loved that so much.

I started listening to the podcast. They offered free monthly calls. They did book club and things like that. I fell deeper into the rabbit hole that is Next Level University until I became a client.

They were coaching me, and I was building my own group coaching programmes at the time. I had done a keynote called Holistic Healing for Your Hormones at an incredible event, and I sent it to Alan, who you interviewed. I asked, "Can I have some feedback on this? As a fellow public speaker, I would love some genuine feedback."

It's hard for people to give you feedback on public speaking because most people are just impressed that you're up there. Most people say, "It was amazing." Thank you, but I wanted to get better.

He loved it and said, "Would you ever consider coming down?" I'm in Canada, and they're in the States. He asked if I would consider coming down and MCing and helping them throw their live event, a day dedicated to personal development. I said, "I don't know how to do that, but yes, absolutely."

It was one of those "yes, and figure it out" moments. That was almost four years ago, and things have grown with them ever since.

Thomas Wu:
Amazing. Before we continue, I would be remiss if I didn't ask you, as long as you're comfortable with it, about the illness, the affliction, the issues you were having. I'm going to butcher the name. What was the name of it?

Amy Lenius:
It's called endometriosis, and I'm happy to answer any questions on that.

Thomas Wu:
For those who don't know what it is, can you shed some light?

Amy Lenius:
Absolutely. It's a chronic pain inflammatory disorder. There are many different ways that it presents, but it's basically uterine-like cells proliferating outside of where they're supposed to be. It's an uncancerous cancer. These cells grow in areas of your body where they're not supposed to grow, so it causes pain, dysfunction, and other issues.

A lot of women struggle with very heavy, painful, and unpredictable cycles, as well as infertility. Mine affected my legs quite a bit. The nerves in my legs would cause me to collapse sometimes because my legs would stop working or be in a lot of pain.

They're finding these proliferating cells in women's lung tissue and armpits now. It can spread and cause all sorts of discomfort and symptoms. It's very much a lot of pain, discomfort, and inflammation, and it is hormonally driven in women.

Thomas Wu:
Is it curable, treatable, manageable, or is it a lost cause?

Amy Lenius:
It depends who you ask. The medical community has said for a long time, "Let's just give them hysterectomies and hope that it works." It doesn't, because these cells are growing outside of your uterus. That was something offered to me at a very young age, and I'm glad I didn't take it because even though I was told I might never have children, I have been able to have two beautiful boys. They're 11 and 14 now, which is amazing.

I believe that we can maintain it. I know there are different varieties, levels, and severities, but I have seen through lifestyle change, natural hormone support, and many other things that it can be managed. I did a lot of unsexy fundamentals for about a decade to get to where I am.

A lot of people don't like to hear that because they want to know the one thing. "What was the one thing you did so I can be healthy and pain-free as well?" But I followed many different things. I did a lot of things that didn't work and a lot of things that did.

I don't believe there is a cure-all for everybody. Things that worked for me might not work for you. It's very dependent. But there are so many things out there that people don't get curious enough to tap into. They get told one prognosis from one person and allow that to become their identity. That's where people get lost, and I think that's really sad and disappointing.

Thomas Wu:
We'll get into that in a moment, but where are you now with it? Is it gone? Is it manageable? Does it come up once in a while?

Amy Lenius:
It's manageable. It is something that never goes away, as much as we would like to think so. I've never heard of a case where it goes away completely, but you can absolutely manage it. I've gotten so in tune with my body and my hormones that I can tell when my inflammation is coming up. I can recognise, "I've been hitting the dairy pretty hard lately, so I should probably lay off," or "I haven't been doing my herbs and teas as much as I need to."

I have many things in my wellness regimen that are just habit at this point. If I don't stay tapped into those things, I do get inflamed and my cycle changes. Now I'm also in another stage of life where my hormones are changing as I age, so it's kind of back to being the Wild West a little bit. So yes and no.

Thomas Wu:
Well, it is ice cream season.

Amy Lenius:
I know!

Thomas Wu:
You mentioned that a lot of people aren't able to recognise and move past it. What made you able to push through and not just say, "Well, this is my life now," or go through with the hysterectomy, or keep looking for that one thing and never finding it? What pushed you past that moment?

Amy Lenius:
Don't get me wrong, I wasn't like that initially. When I first got that diagnosis in my late teens, I got really depressed for a while, especially when they told me there was a good chance I wouldn't have kids. I wasn't a career-driven youth. I wanted to be a mum. That was my biggest and first goal that I can remember having. That was really sad for me.

I did take their word as, "Okay, this is my life now. What can I do?" They told me I was going to be in pain forever and that I wasn't going to have regular cycles like other women. I sat with it for a long time and did whatever they told me to do for years.

I did different hormone therapies, lots of different pain medications, and surgeries where they go in and cauterise the extra tissue to give you relief for a little while until it all grows back. That's a cycle you get into as well. I went through all of that for years. I can't even think of the number of surgeries I've had.

After years of that, in my early twenties, around 23 or 24, I had this moment of being so fed up. I was tired of feeling sick from all the things I was on, on top of the symptoms from my condition. I was used to the pain from my condition anyway, and I was taking all these drugs and doing all these things that didn't seem to be helping that much.

I thought, what if I just went off everything and started from scratch to see what actually worked? It was a rebellious move. I had been in this system for years, compounding all these drugs and treatments, and I didn't even know what was working anymore. I didn't know what wasn't working. I didn't know what was my pain and what was gut trouble from intense anti-inflammatories.

I had this fed-up moment, so I went off everything and started from scratch. At the time, I was in school and had done about a year or a year and a bit of my schooling. I had learned so much about the human body and that there were many other modalities of healing. So I thought, what if I took a break from this and got curious about what else is out there?

That's what I did. That was the pivotal moment. Then there was a lot of exploration and learning from different modalities of health and wellness, and applying them in a way that made sense for me.

Thomas Wu:
Amazing. It sounds like you're doing really well with it. I understand there are ups and downs, but it sounds like you're managing it pretty well. Congratulations on that. I hope that continues, and I hope that with the changes that are upcoming, you're able to manage it. I have every confidence that you will find a way because you've come such a long way. I'm very impressed by that.

Amy Lenius:
Thank you. I believe so too. I know things are changing, but I believe in my ability to figure it out, whatever gets thrown my way. That is something that has built over the years: my confidence in myself. That comes through the actions I've taken and reflection. "I've figured that out before. This was tough, but I figured it out." I'm always encouraging others to do the same. Reflect back on what you've already made it through and apply that to what you're about to go through.

Thomas Wu:
I love that. That goes into the question I was going to ask next, talking about self-belief. You've said before that self-worth and self-belief are often the real bottlenecks. Was that the case for you? Was self-belief something that helped you push through?

Amy Lenius:
When I look back, yes. Self-belief and self-worth are pillars I've learned about over the last four-plus years. When I look back on my own journey, and you ask what it was about me that allowed me to keep going, break free, and do what I needed to get healthy, that's correlated to self-belief. I built even more self-belief through those actions.

Self-belief is self-efficacy. It's your belief in your ability to achieve an outcome. It doesn't mean you have to know how. It doesn't mean you know everything. It means, "I believe I can learn and implement. I believe I can ask someone who knows and take their advice and implement it into my own life." Self-belief is very action-driven.

Self-worth has been a ceiling for me for years. That is very different. Self-worth is an internal game. Am I worthy of the results I'm working so hard for? If deep down we don't believe that, we'll find ways to go off the rails and not achieve the result.

It's asking, "Do I believe I'm worthy, confident, and capable enough to hold the standards along the way to get the goal? Do I surround myself with the right people, or am I such a people pleaser that I surround myself with anybody?" There are deeper layers to self-worth. That's the internal work.

When I came into Next Level University, we could see that my self-belief was really high, but that's when we started learning the difference between the two. We attract a lot of people with high self-belief, people who have goals and want to achieve them, but we also attract a lot of people with low self-worth.

That work is such a privilege to be able to do. Over the last few years, my lens has been heavily focused on increasing my self-worth and self-respect. It has been life-altering. It's fascinating to see the impact and the difference between the two, the work it takes to grow them, and how worthwhile that work is.

Thomas Wu:
In your coaching, in your life, and in your observations, a lot of people self-sabotage because of self-belief and self-worth. Does self-sabotage happen because of self-belief and self-worth, or is it a lack of discipline, or some combination? What are your thoughts on that?

Amy Lenius:
I have a lot of thoughts on discipline and motivation. Those are two very fleeting things, and we only have them every so often based on our capacity and what's going on. When you can be consistent in spite of discipline or motivation, that's when you can become really successful. These are things we rely on, but they aren't reliable.

When we talk about identity work, we're helping people build their version of success because success is very subjective. It's individual and unique to what people actually believe it is for them and what they actually want.

Identity work has to come along the way. Self-belief can hinder you because if you have low self-belief, you're often not willing to take action because you don't believe it will be worth it. You don't believe you are capable of achieving it. That can trip you up right away.

If you had to pick out of the three, self-belief, self-worth, and consistency, self-belief is the most important one to start with because it needs to come up through self-worth and consistency. Self-belief is a great place to start, building your belief in your capabilities. That's done through action. If you're not willing to take action, you'll struggle to build it.

Self-worth limits you in areas like keeping the promises you make to yourself. You'll see it in struggles to hold boundaries with yourself and especially with others. You'll struggle with social courage and being courageous enough to be your authentic self and say and do the things you really want to say and do.

Some people with low self-worth really struggle to invest in themselves. That's part of self-worth that I have never struggled with, but I struggled heavily in a couple of the other areas. Then there's comparison. If you struggle with low self-worth, you may struggle with comparison in a detrimental way instead of using comparison for inspiration and motivation.

You can see where all those little ceilings can hit. And of course, if you can't be consistent, which takes a certain amount of self-belief, self-worth, and sustainability, then you're constantly going to find ways not to have momentum in your goals or leverage the compound effect it takes to reach the end result.

Thomas Wu:
There's so much in there we can dive into. You mentioned that one of the ways to move past self-belief issues is action. What are some actions that you mean by that?

Amy Lenius:
That's very individual to the person and to their goals. That's why I love goals so much. If you have a goal, an end result, a target you want to hit, or a result you want to achieve, that starts to dictate your actions. All of your actions now become either for or against the goal. That can help you gain clarity on which actions are worthwhile for your time and effort, and which ones you can let go of for a little while, or maybe even forever, if they're not serving you.

Thomas Wu:
When you're talking about goals, I can't remember which book I read it in, maybe Atomic Habits, but are you talking about goals as in, "I'm going to run a marathon," or goals as in, "I am a runner, therefore I am going to run"?

Amy Lenius:
There are process goals and result goals. Process goals are about who you are becoming along the way. They're based on the journey versus the result. Result goals are about the tangible thing you're going for. The process may not matter as much to you, but they all have a process, and they all go together.

It depends on how you're wired. Some people are results-driven and some people are experience-driven. People who are experience-driven like process goals. They like the journey. People who are results-driven are focused on the outcome.

Alan is very results-driven. He doesn't care about the process. Even if his quality of life throughout the process is garbage, if he gets the result, he's satisfied. I'm different. I need the process to flow within my life. I need it to fit with everything else I'm doing and not be a detriment to my well-being. I'm okay with pushing the timeline of the result if it means it doesn't affect my day-to-day life as much and I can still have joy.

That's unique to individuals. This is why I love identity work, self-awareness, self-assessment, and having someone walk you through this. There's no point trying to push yourself into buckets you are not naturally inclined to fit into.

With Alan being results-driven, we know how to talk to Alan and how to set goals for him. With me being process-driven, it's a completely different mechanism, but it honours me and what I'm more likely to do, and therefore more likely to achieve.

For Alan and me, when we go on podcasts, we're learning to speak on a macro level, which we actually find a lot harder than speaking one-to-one. If I'm speaking to someone one-to-one, we can assess things pretty quickly. I can tell if someone has high self-belief or low self-belief because we've worked with so many people.

Right away, I know what language to speak and what not to speak. If I use high self-belief language with someone who has low self-belief, I may do more harm than good. And vice versa. If I use low self-belief language with someone who has high self-belief, they're like, "What are we doing? Let's go."

To speak on a macro level, you have to be very discerning with what you say, or make sure you say enough that people can recognise themselves in different scenarios. That's where speakers and coaches can get into trouble. If they think, "These three things worked for me, so I'm going to talk about these three things as if they'll work for everybody," that can be a problem.

If you're not an empowered individual who can filter through that and say, "That won't work for me," you may think, "This doesn't work for me, so I'm the problem. Maybe I can't grow and evolve."

Thomas Wu:
I love that. I don't know if you're a fan of How I Met Your Mother, but there's an episode where Barney runs a marathon and says, "How hard is that? You start to run and then you just keep running." But when it comes to habits, getting out of your rut, and working on self-worth and self-belief, you're talking about consistency. Good habits fail for so many people, even when they're simple. Is there something to that? Is there a way around it?

Amy Lenius:
Absolutely. If you're failing at the habits you want to do every day, welcome to being human. We are so wired neurologically for the path of least resistance that it's challenging for most of us to keep up consistency and be motivated to reach our goals and do the hard things it takes. We're not naturally wired that way.

We need to play into who we are as individuals and make sure it makes sense with the lifestyle we currently have and the one we're trying to build. You need a bridge between the two. The habit you need to do every day to get the result has to fit into the life you have right now.

If I started living my life like Alan, it would be a disaster. I have children. I homeschool them, I'm very involved, and motherhood is my most important thing. Everything else I do comes secondary. If I tried to embody Alan's mindset and life, it would be a detrimental mistake for me. But I can still embody the principles that are through lines of success.

He and I are both consistent in the things that matter most to us, but those things are very different and done at different intensities because our lifestyles are different.

If you want to break down consistency, self-belief has to come in first. There are layers. There's self-belief as far as the actions. I teach people to state, prove, and self-sign. State what you're going to do. Prove it by getting it done. Then have a moment of self-recognition, celebration, or acknowledgement into the identity of, "I did the thing I said I was going to do."

You can do that for process and result goals. I love teaching this to people who struggle to take action. My low self-worth crew struggles to take in that they did a good job. They might say, "I did the laundry, but I should have folded it better or separated the colours better." They rob themselves of the identity-building piece, which is, "I did the laundry today. I did my family a beautiful service." That is really challenging for people with low self-worth.

The framework sounds simple, but it can be challenging. If you're an overthinker, it's tough to state clearly what you want to do. That's why I love breaking it down into little daily things that you're probably already doing and just not giving yourself credit for.

If you're a perfectionist, you struggle to take action. If you struggle with low self-worth, you struggle to build the identity. That's building self-belief through action.

When it comes to consistency, the layers of mental belief are: do I believe it's possible in general? Have I seen it done out in the world? Typically, yes. Do I believe it's possible for me? Those are two different answers for many people. Then, do I believe it's going to be worth it? Do I believe it will be worth doing the things that will be hard some days and easy other days?

That's where questions need to come in. We need to discern what people believe is possible for them and what will be worth it for them.

I love using fitness as an example. Coming from chronic illness, and being someone who could experience inflammation through physical activity, I deeply believed I wasn't going to be able to be consistently physically fit because I felt like my body was broken.

When I started working with Alan, he helped me with fitness and taught me these principles through my fitness journey. He asked, "Do you believe it's possible for people to work out every day?" I said, "Absolutely." Then he asked, "Do you believe it's possible for you?" I said, "No. Here are all the reasons why."

Then he asked, "Do you believe it would be worth it to find a way to move your body every day so you could be as healthy as you want to be?" I said, "Absolutely." I knew it would be worth it. I just didn't have belief in my body and its capabilities.

So we worked through it. He asked if I believed I could go to the gym for an hour every day. Absolutely not. I have a full life, and I live in a tiny town that doesn't even have a gym. I would have to drive about 45 minutes just to get to the closest gym, which adds so much time to that hour. That was my ceiling. That was my no.

We kept working with it. He asked if I wanted to work out from home. I said, "Yes, I love the idea of working out from home." We broke it down to the point where I said, "Here is what I believe I can do: I believe I can move my body in an aligned way for 30 minutes a day." That's how I started.

I loved the variety that gave me. It wasn't, "I'm going to lift weights for half an hour every day." It was, "What can my body do and achieve today within this timeline?" Some days that looked like yoga and long-form stretching. Some days it was a hike. Some days it was weights. It was based on my day, and I got to play with that, which made it sustainable for me.

Belief comes in through those layers: do you believe it's worth it, do you believe it's possible, and do you believe it's possible for you? That's a great place to start when assessing goals and habits.

Thomas Wu:
Amazing. I'm surprised Alan was the one who coached you. You're also a coach through NLU, and your life and Alan's life are very different. The way you both think is very different. What was that coaching relationship like? Was it because you already listened to their podcast and had belief in him and his process? Why did you decide to work with him and not Kevin?

Amy Lenius:
That's the beauty of it: I get to work with both of them. Alan is still my coach, and I also get the privilege of working alongside Kevin in group coaching and learning from him in that setting. Alan is the one who pours directly into me, and I'm so grateful for that.

As different as we are, Alan is the most skilled and aware coach and leader I have ever had the privilege to work with. He built so much trust with me. Kevin and Alan are both very integrous, and Alan will never suggest anything that he isn't willing to do himself or hasn't tried himself.

Now, that's a little different when he's coaching women in fitness, because he knows that has to look different than what he himself can do. I like to think I've played a bit of a role in teaching him those things too, especially around women's health and awareness.

That's why we work so beautifully together. As different as Alan and I are, we have the same core. We have the same heart. We are driven by the same things because we share a core wound. Our first and main core wound is the same.

When you get into core wound work and start putting people into those buckets, there are three. We all have all three, but it's about the order they're in and the percentages that rule us. His and mine are the same and in the same proportions, which is why we speak the same language even though we seem so different and understand each other so well.

Then Kevin comes in with a complementary one, but his views are so different. We get to tap into all these incredible mindsets through the lens of success principles: what works, what makes sense, and why it makes sense in Amy's life versus someone like Alan's. I think that's something special we're able to offer because we are so different, and our lifestyles are so different.

Thomas Wu:
Very cool. Before we continue, for those who aren't going to click down into the show notes to the previous conversation I had with Alan, tell me about Next Level University. What is Next Level University?

Amy Lenius:
Next Level University was founded by Kevin Palmieri and Alan Lazarus. I think they've surpassed nine years now. It started as a podcast. It started as a once-a-week podcast. They fell in love with hyper-conscious conversations. The podcast was originally called The Hyper Conscious Podcast, and it grew into a seven-day-a-week show. They're on the mic seven days a week. They batch their episodes, but episodes come out every day.

It grew into not only a coaching and mentorship company, but we also do podcast producing. There's a whole section where they're coaching, producing, and doing things for people and their shows. Our group coaching is podcasting right now, called the Podcast Accelerator Group. The three of us do that together, and we take small batches of ten people every quarter.

That's my favourite because people get the three of us. We spend the first four weeks on "grow yourself." Those first four weeks are dedicated to heavy identity work and personal growth. Then it goes into show, and then it goes into business. We do that identity work first on purpose.

As I'm sure you've noticed through this episode, that is my favourite work. Identity work is where I get really excited and lit up.

We also do things like book club. We've read Atomic Habits in book club. That's a great one. We do growth-oriented books, and Alan facilitates that as well. We have free monthly masterclasses where we're learning about success principles.

It is a company dedicated to helping you find your version of success and get it through identity work, success principles, one-on-one coaching, group coaching, and things like that. It's very driven by heart. We're connected to helping heart-driven humans do their thing in the world because we believe that's what will make the world a better place. That's the heart of everything we do.

Thomas Wu:
I'm simplifying this, and maybe far too much, but there are a lot of different coaches out there. Life coaches, fitness coaches, business coaches, exit coaches, and so many different areas of coaching. It sounds like NLU doesn't have one particular focus. It sounds like you're trying to frame the coaching more specifically for each person. Is that right?

Amy Lenius:
Very much so. Kevin will always tell you he's a podcast coach. He will coach you on your podcast, the success of your podcast, the process, the thumbnails, behind-the-scenes numbers, and all of those things. But he still helps people with their mental and emotional health and identity work because that comes along with it.

Alan is planting his flag on peak performance. He is the ultimate form of next-level human. He is the best I've ever seen at helping people change their behaviour, which is what is needed now more in the world. We used to always say knowledge is power, but knowledge is so accessible these days. It's what you do with the knowledge and how you implement it into your life that makes the difference.

Alan can get people to change their behaviours for the sake of changing their life. He's more of a peak performance coach. He is in your numbers. You are habit tracking and getting 1% better. He's like a computer genius for habits. It's wild.

I come in for personal development and success. Those are my two titles. Alan is still the top fitness coach in our community. I come in and can't help but help my ladies with cyclical awareness as well. When they're struggling to stay consistent in their habits, some weeks they crush it and some weeks they really struggle. That's because they're biologically not set up for success in the same way every week. That's their hormones. Let's bring that in and make sure they still feel consistent while having days where they can feel like a potato, and that's okay.

We're very different, but because we are so dedicated to our crafts and obsessed with helping people, we have a vast knowledge between the three of us that works in many scenarios.

Thomas Wu:
You've mentioned that success is subjective. Do people actually know what their version of success is? Or is that something you delve into in your coaching?

Amy Lenius:
I think people first need permission to define their version of success versus what has been projected onto them. That's a great place to start. Is your version of success even yours?

When you think of success, are you only thinking monetarily? Or are you thinking about your relationships, your physical, mental, and emotional health? What does that look like for you? What kinds of feelings and experiences do you want to have every day? What does abundance mean to you, and is it just monetary?

Is success just in a field you were told about early on, like lawyer, doctor, or failure? Or were you taught that you can be all sorts of things and still be successful? It's very rare to hear that people had that kind of upbringing. It's not only in the household you grew up in; it's societal as well. It depends on the groups you've been exposed to and how they dictate what you believe is successful.

Giving people permission to dive into their values and beliefs, and to build a version of success from that, is really fascinating and fun.

Thomas Wu:
So is that an identity thing?

Amy Lenius:
It definitely can be. Let's say one of your top core values is freedom, but you've built a brick-and-mortar business where you are tied to it all the time. On paper, it's successful. It looks successful. But you don't feel fulfilled. You're actually miserable about it because they don't match. They're misaligned.

Thomas Wu:
That makes sense. Are you still talking about women's cycles a lot? Is that still a core part of what you do?

Amy Lenius:
It is. I can't help it. It depends what arena I'm in. I go on a lot of podcasts, and sometimes podcast hosts want me to come on and talk about my illness, what worked, and the struggle of going through that and coming out the other side.

When it comes to working with women for their version of success, I think it's such a mistake not to have them understand that huge aspect of themselves. Self-awareness is such a superpower, and that comes along with physical awareness as well.

If you understand that your body, mind, and soul are working differently in certain arenas during certain weeks of the month, it's validating and permission-giving. It lets you be a different version of yourself while still knowing what it looks like to reach your goals during those seasons. So I can't help it.

Thomas Wu:
It's great. It's refreshing to hear it, maybe because I'm a guy and I never hear it. Should a woman's cycle influence how women work, build their careers, and build businesses?

Amy Lenius:
I think it does regardless. I don't know if it's a should thing. It does impact every aspect of your life.

Do I wish we lived in more of a matriarchal system where women had more control over what their time looked like and what effort was required of them? Yes. But people get upset when they hear, "You can have a different kind of lifestyle if you understand your cycle," because they say, "I go to the same job every day. I don't have control over when I show up or what that looks like. I'm at the mercy of my job."

That's okay. What you expect of yourself is in your control. What kind of grace you give yourself, and what supports you put into place during certain times of the month, are within your control. There are a lot of things outside of our control, of course. But how can we double down on the things within our control through the lens of where we are energetically, mentally, physically, and emotionally?

If you have more control over your time, and a career where there are seasons when you can be creative, then batch that creative time into that part of your cycle. If there's a time when you're more social or front-facing, lean into that. For example, I crush podcasts during a certain season of my cycle, and I struggle more in other times. Luckily, I can pull on reps and experience, but I can tell the difference.

There are seasons when women are more articulate and more set up for cognitive function and conversation skills. There are other times when we are not, and it takes extra effort. It's helpful to know that about yourself.

Even though I'm not going to avoid going on a podcast when I'm not as set up for front-facing work, I'm going to give myself more grace. I might say, "Last week I crushed it. This week I wasn't as strong, but that makes sense." I'm not going to shame myself for it. I can be kinder to myself and understand myself better without the shame and guilt many women put on themselves because they can't function the same all the time.

Thomas Wu:
I imagine that's not just in terms of your business and career, but it shows up at home as a parent as well.

Amy Lenius:
Very much so, as a parent and as a partner. You don't have to be in the workforce for this to make sense. I live with boys. I have two boys and a husband, and they are all very cyclically aware because I have let them into that world.

I can say, "Mummy is not set up for patience today, and I was a little short with you. I'm so sorry. I'm going to do better. Here's what I can ask for support from you because I'm not at my full capacity today." That kind of language helps them understand.

I'm treated like an absolute princess. It's amazing. I'm spoiled, but it's because I've created a culture of that in my home where I get to talk about it. Chris is so in tune. He knows when it's time to bring home a steak and feed me a steak because that's when I feel my best. My kids are attuned to what he does.

Kids do what you do, not what you say. When they see Chris getting me my heating pad or things like that, they'll ask, "Mummy, do you need your heat blanket today? Can we set you up?" It's a really beautiful thing that I think can and should be brought into the home because you're setting your kids up to understand that this is a natural part of life.

Thomas Wu:
I love how, in the conversations we've had, I'm amazed by how intentional you are and how you keep things very simple. Is that something you've learned over time, or is that just how you've always been?

Amy Lenius:
I think it's learned. Early on, I was more wired for chaos, stress, taking on too much, saying yes to too much, and being everything for everyone at the expense of myself. Over the years, that has healed and changed to the point where I deeply value simplicity and clarity.

That doesn't mean I don't have chaotic moments. I homeschool my kids, work from home, and take on all these aspects of having a very full life. It gets crazy sometimes. But I am equipped with tools that help me navigate that chaos.

To think chaos isn't going to happen is delusional and naive. When people look from the outside in and say, "My life isn't peaceful like that," mine isn't either. I create moments like that on purpose because there are more moments in a day that are reactive, especially if you have kids, pets, or any variables outside yourself.

There is only so much we can be proactive about. Even the habits I'm proactive in don't always happen in the order or the way I would like them to every day. They just have to happen because I'm dedicated to doing them. I'm dedicated to being that kind of person.

Sometimes it's the end of the day and I haven't done four habits yet. It's going to look like absolute trash, but that's okay. It doesn't have to be perfect. It just has to get done. Those mindsets save me.

There are skills, tips, tools, and tricks you can put into your day-to-day, but they're very individual. For me, moments of self-care are important during the day, but they don't look like an elaborate skincare routine. I don't have time for that. It's having an intentional cup of tea first thing in the morning. My first cup of tea is very intentional. What is the tea? What do I need? What mug is it in? I'm already going to do that.

The difference is, am I doing it with intention, or am I doing it mindlessly while stressing about everything else? A lot of times you're doing the same things you were going to do anyway. The intention and mindset behind them are very different.

Thomas Wu:
Amazing. Thank you for sharing that. For people who are thinking about getting coaching, regardless of whether it's from you, NLU, or somewhere else, do they have to be ready? Or can they just decide they need a coach, get coached, and get better? Is there an expectation of the people you coach for them to find success?

Amy Lenius:
Yes and no. There's a duality there. Are you ever ready? No. But do you have to be willing? Yes.

Finances need to play into what you're investing in. Is it going to be a detriment or a plus? Alan always says he's the worst coach in the world if he can't make you back multiple times whatever you invest into him. I embody that principle as well. If I can't increase your joy, abundance, and yes, income by what you're paying into me, I'm doing you a disservice.

We work well with people who have humility, vulnerability, and courage, and who are willing to do what it takes to create change in their life. "What it takes" looks different for everybody. It's not something that will change your life in a weekend. If someone says that to you, that should be a red flag for a coach.

That's too much, and it's not sustainable. We talked about consistency. We're here to help you make small, consistent changes that increase your quality of life and success.

We used to say health, wealth, quality of life, and love: holistic self-improvement. We don't say that as much anymore because no one knows what we're talking about when we say it. Now we simplify it: personal development and success. Fitness, finance, and family. Those are the three pillars.

But when people hear fitness, they think lifting weights in the gym, and that does the word a disservice. Fitness is mental fitness too. I would rather see you do yoga every day if that's right for you than lift weights if that's not.

There is a willingness that has to come along. I think humility, courage, and vulnerability are important. Humility is your ability to be accurate about yourself. The more accurate information you give us, the better we can help you. It takes humility to say, "I'm really good at this, and I really struggle here."

If you go in with fear of being seen as less than, you'll hide pieces of yourself, and then the advice we give you might be a detriment. Alan had a client not too long ago where he was giving amazing finance advice, but she hadn't told him she had thousands of dollars of debt. The information he gave her wasn't optimal without that piece. They had to change what she was doing with her finances to accommodate the debt.

That's a simple example, but that's why humility, courage, and vulnerability go really well together.

Thomas Wu:
Once someone has decided they want a coach and they're thinking about NLU, who should come to you? Who should go to Alan? Who should go to Kevin? How do you discern that, or is it always a combination?

Amy Lenius:
We always say people come to us for what they want, and it's our job to discern what they need and help them understand what they need. That's different for everybody.

We've had people go to Alan and then get passed to me, and vice versa. People come to me who are really good at the inner work and have themselves figured out, but they need serious help dissecting the business, understanding economics, and things like that. I'm going to pass them to Alan.

There are also many principles that bleed together. Alan and I have three or four people we coach together. Every two weeks they're with one of us, so they get each of us once a month. That has been fascinating to see the benefit of.

It's very dependent. I believe in our ability to say, "I know who can help you better with this." I think that's also what makes a really good coach: embracing and accepting that you are not the best fit for everything.

Thomas Wu:
Have you ever coached anybody who was just unwilling to change?

Amy Lenius:
Absolutely. And I'm thinking, you're still here giving me your money, which I want to be grateful for, but it feels out of integrity for me to keep telling you these are the things, and you're not willing to do them.

You can only say the same things in so many different ways. At the end of the day, if you're not willing to do the actions, the work, the mindset, or whatever it is, there's only so much we can do.

It's okay if the first approach doesn't work. If someone says, "I tried this, Amy, and that wasn't the thing that worked for me," amazing. How can we still get that result in a different way? That's fine. That's amazing because we're still willing to go back and forth, dissect what needs to be done, and work together.

But there are people who come back time after time, and it's the same thing. I feel like we can't progress onto the other amazing things we could do together because there's something they don't want to face.

I've even sent people to Alan's partner, Emilia, because she's extremely skilled in trauma. I've had people where we get to a certain route, and I think there is some trauma here that Emilia would be better at guiding and supporting you through. Until we crack open that route, all the other stuff you're here for may not move.

Thomas Wu:
Very cool. Right now with NLU, is it just the three of you doing the coaching? Have you brought in additional coaches?

Amy Lenius:
It's just the three of us as the front-facing coaches and podcasters. What a privilege and special space to be in. I don't know if Kevin and Alan ever considered that bringing in someone like me to this level would happen.

We have an incredible team of people doing amazing work behind the scenes, but we tried for a while to have a programme where we helped coaches become better coaches, and it wasn't quite what we hoped it would be.

We are very big on integrity and trust. Trust is everything in a business. You're a business podcast. If you can't have trust within your community and in what you give to others, that's a big issue. If we bring in someone who we don't believe can maintain the level of trust that NLU has a reputation for, that's a big leap to take.

So no, it's just us right now. But we are willing and excited to work with other people in different ways. We work with coaches. I'm happy to help coaches become better coaches, understand how to speak the language of other people, and assess other people.

When I talked earlier about speaking to someone with high self-belief versus low self-belief, that's something I can help a coach understand, not only within themselves, but also for the people they're serving. We do work with coaches. We just haven't brought anyone on as an NLU coach.

Thomas Wu:
That makes sense. For people who are thinking about getting a coach, Tiger Woods famously had many coaches, so there's an argument that we all need a coach or two or three. For someone thinking, "Maybe I should get a coach," is there a trigger for them to think, "You could use a coach"? What might help them come into the light?

Amy Lenius:
It depends on the person. Some people feel like if they could, they would, because they love the idea of accountability, growth, and someone helping them see their blind spots.

Thomas Wu:
Then why a coach? Why not see a therapist?

Amy Lenius:
That's a whole different thing too. Typically, people who want a coach need a therapist, and people who want a therapist need a coach. People who are comfortable with inner work often struggle externally. There are so many heart-driven, amazing humans who struggle to make money in the economy. Then there are people who are business-driven and good in that area, but they struggle with relationships, fulfilment, and other things. It depends.

Personally, I think I would love a therapist. I have yet to find one I mesh with very well in the few times I've tried. Luckily, Alan is very good at both. But he will constantly say, if you need a therapist, he is not a therapist for a reason. He's a very intense guy. He has coach energy all over him, but all of us have studied different modalities of therapy.

Thomas Wu:
Talking about his intensity, of all the conversations I've had with people on this podcast, I was the most nervous talking to him.

Amy Lenius:
He does that. He has a very intense energy for sure.

Thomas Wu:
I felt like I needed to raise my energy level just to be able to talk to him, and that made me a little nervous. For people who are interested, I've kept you for a very long time now. I appreciate you being generous with your time, knowledge, and wisdom. For people looking for more information, how do they get hold of NLU and get in touch with you?

Amy Lenius:
For me personally, we're big on Instagram and Facebook. There are so many other platforms out there, but we've planted our flags on those two. It's just @AmyLenius. If you want to continue this conversation in any way, I would love to talk to you. You can message me any time.

We deeply believe in the importance of human-to-human connection. When you message any one of us on those two platforms, you are getting us. It's not an assistant. It's not AI. It is us, and we would love to support you in your journey in any way, even if that is having a conversation about what that could look like for you.

We are open to questions, curiosity, and supporting you the best we can behind the scenes, even if you're not ready to take that leap to something more in front of the scenes.

Thomas Wu:
Amazing. Thank you, Amy. We'll have all that information in the show notes. Amy, thank you again. This has been lovely. I hope we get to chat again soon.

Amy Lenius:
Me too. Thank you so much.